Saturday, February 9, 2008

Internet Civility, and IVAW bylaws

For all those who may not be aware (excerpted with permission from IVAW National):

Any of the following acts outlined below are strictly prohibited.

2) Verbal, physical, or sexual harassment;
3) Conduct endangering the life, safety, and/or health of others;

If any member is engaging in this behavior, they are not acting as an official spokesperson of IVAW. IVAW does not condone, in any way, shape, or form, this sort of behavior.

As a member of Iraq Veterans Against the War, I would like to apologize for the behavior which took place over the last few days in the milblogosphere. I am not going to link to it, because I, quite frankly, don't want that filth touching what is effectively "my house". A penny and a Google will find it for you anyway.

Denis Keohane, of Obiter Dictum, makes a very good point: there are individuals on both sides that have not seemed to grasp the concept of adult behavior, and agreeing to disagree. On our side, we will be policing our own, and I would hope that Gathering of Eagles is also policing their own side. I also suspect that it may in fact be once again as Mr. Keohane says, and that people spew all sorts of violence on the internet that they would never mean. As he puts it, (excerpted without permission and it will be removed if so desired:)

With all the years of demonstrations and counter-demonstrations we've had in this country, you would think at times that blood has been running down the streets and the ERs jammed to capacity and calling in aid from other states every time CODEPINK or IVAW and GOE members temporarilly share a zip code!

It ain't happening and it hasn't happened.

All sides can point to the incident or a few where tempers went critical and things happened. But they are a tiny, tiny few, out of hundreds of events engaging thousands of people.

I hope that I am correct when I say that no one will be meeting in DC with violence. That any retired law enforcement officers will look at their weapons, and as men who have dealt with violence all their lives, choose not to bring an escalating object to an event at which multiple veterans, many of which are diagnosed with PTSD on both sides, will be present. That all of our hotheads will allow the crisp March air to cool their thoughts as well as their bodies.

I have great hope for this. I have hope for this in the mutual respect I am seeing on many sides, the respect I am seeing at The Sniper (who still probably throws up a little in his mouth just thinking of it), the respect at Obiter Dictum, and even the newest in the respect contingent, who I'm sure will be a surprise to everyone- Adam Kokesh. Yes, folks, Adam Kokesh met the national director of operations for Gathering Of Eagles, Chris Hill the other day, and not only is nobody dead, the two of them apparently had a nice talk, and may be doing an event for charity together.

No, I swear, it's not Opposite Day. Sanity has in fact prevailed, it would seem, and if one doesn't have an eye on the ugly emails filling my inbox right now, one would almost think that peace on earth, good will to men, all that, were filling the whole political-veteran world.

Eh. I'll take what I can get. I'm really happy for this. And I look forward to seeing the match. My money will, of course, be on Adam. He'd probably kick my ass if I didn't bet on him, anyway.


LT Nixon said...

I like your style! It is politically defeating for all veterans to engage in name-calling amongst each other. My political beliefs aren't really shared by too many others (I'm basically a big L libertarian that supports continuing the mission in Iraq for various reasons), so I've definitely learned that it's best to be civil and receptive to new ideas. Maybe we can even learn something from each other...hmm. Thanks SGT.

Thus Spake Ortner said...

I threw up in my mouth a lot.

Just kidding.

You know my feelings on confrontation, serves very little purpose.

Zero Ponsdorf said...

Well said.

truth seeker said...

Agreed, well said!


Death by Stupid said...

"Policing our own?" I'm sorry, do you have some kind of authority here I'm unaware of? Since you have no proof of any sort of misconduct apart from the word of a very dubious blogger, you are really talking out of school here. You have no right to, however obliquely, refer to me as some sort of criminal. If some sort of crime were committed, some threats made to "two women", get off your pedestal and refer the matter to the police. Please. Give them all your internet evidence and see me arrested. You've now become just as incredible as the scumbags over at the "Sniper".

I'm going to consult the IVAW bylaws myself, to see if you've broken any of them in your petty crusade. If you have, maybe the board will take action to retrain your concept of "message discipline".

Army Sergeant said...

I'm not going to delete and censor your post, but you are more than welcome to delete it if you wish, and it would certainly be my preference that you would. You are, again, not making yourself or IVAW look good.

I have a lot more important things and work to attend to than you. I assure you, I have not broken any IVAW bylaws, nor do I plan to.

Please stop. Do you not see that every time you get irrational, you make yourself look more like what you claim you aren't? Again, I ask you to stop. I don't know who you think this is helping, but I assure you, it is no one.

Death by Stupid said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Army Sergeant said...

Your last comment was deleted because of your expose of private data: if you wish to repost the same comment without the private data, you are more than welcome to.

Just as you are welcome to believe whatever version of reality lets you sleep at night. However, if you wish to present your version of reality, you may wish to do so with a bit less vitriol, and a bit more of a reasonable facade, at the very least.

Death by Stupid said...

You seem pretty bitter now that your "investigation" ran out of steam. I'm sorry it didn't pan out. I really can't see why you wanted to hang me so bad.

I'm also sorry if I disclosed personal information. I wasn't aware I had. I do see and want to honor the need for active-duty IVAW members to retain as much anonymity as they choose.

There wasn't anything vitriolic about my remarks, and I have no need for facades. My version of events is the one accepted at IVAW. That does indeed permit me to sleep soundly.

Army Sergeant said...

It's really not, which is why I say 'your version of reality'. And I don't and never did want to hang you. I wanted you to man up, admit your mistakes, grow up, and get over them. Like adults do when they do foolish things.

Apparently, that's called living in a dreamworld.

Death by Stupid said...

I guess we'll just have to agree to hate each other. I'm sorry it went down like this.

Army Sergeant said...

I don't hate you. I'm disappointed in you. I expected better from a member.

Also, I'll note that it didn't have to go down like this. We have a lot of members who have said crazy things. I've called them on it. They've admitted it. I still talk to them, and would trust some with anything. Because honesty is what IVAW is supposed to be all about.

Thus Spake Ortner said...

"the word of a very dubious blogger"

Please God tell me this is me. Although "dubious" is an odd adjective here. Am I NOT a blogger? Is my use of words somehow dubious? Rather confusing.

Denis Keohane said...

How dare you quote me without my express permi....

Just kidding, Sarge. Not a problem at all. I commend you also for what you've written.

And of course, you've set and even raised the bar for such, for all. Not a bad bit of work.

Anonymous said...

"Any of the following acts outlined below are strictly prohibited.
2) Verbal, physical, or sexual harassment"

Millard put his hands Bev Perlson outside the recruiting station at 14th and L in DC last September. He grabbed her from behind and started yelling at her "interrupting" his "interview" with MSNBC.

And he repeatedly said to her, "I'll find out where you live."

Bev Perlson's group is "Bnad of Mothers" and they're not hard to find. Call Bev.